Saddam's Capture

[truepictures]

Saddam has been captured.
Good for the people of Iraq.
Saddam has been captured.
Good for the Republican incumbent from Texas.
Saddam has been captured.
Four more years of misery for forward-thinking people in the United States.
... oh i almost forgot . . .
Saddam has been captured
The perpetrators of the WTC/Pentagon attacks are still at large.

[Chris Gore]

The coverage is surreal. So, who do you think will play him in the inevitable CBS TV movie? Omar Sharif?

[truepictures]

Tony Shaloub of Monk is the obvious choice to play Saddam.
No one else could do it. Just look at him. This is the role he was born to play.

I really didn't like his acting in Monk, but I'm sure he'll do justice to this one.

But no responses about the politics of it all?

[El Duderino Diablo]

Jack Elam

[Chris Gore]

Look, everyone, left and right, are going to use Saddam's capture to their political advantage somehow. I'm just grateful he's been caught. Now, let's talk movies!

[truepictures]

Did anyone actually go watch Master & Commander? I just have no inkling to go watch any of Hollywood's latest concoctions.

[fasteddie]

im glad no one went and saw master and commander. that looked like a piece of contrived bs from the get go. just like the alamo will be, prolly like the last samari as well. AND just like the matrices and x2 as well.

[Kuato]

Fasteddie- "im glad no one went and saw master and commander. that looked like a piece of contrived bs from the get go."

i concur....
the last samuri looks like a slap in the face too.

[truepictures]

tom cruise has had the same climactic scene in every single movie he has done since Rain Man. Think about it . . . his hands fly up in the air, he says something extremely corny and he moves around a lot: particular films he does this in (haven't watched the last samurai, so can't tell) Magnolia, Rain Man, Jerry Maguire, Top Gun . . . oh god, so many more.

Also, you really didn't like X2? I thought it had a much better story than the first.

[Ellen M.]

You had me at Tom Cruise sucks!

[truepictures]

how sweet of you.

[Ellen M.]

Truepictures,
Your comments "completed me".

Did you know the human head weighs 10 pounds?

Bah, ha, ha, ha!
Ellen;)

[truepictures]

Since I don't want to repeat one of the most commonly mocked phrases of modern American cinema a la showing me something about . . . I'd just like to say "I may be stupid, but I know what love is."

-dhaval (oh yeah, that's my name.)

[ankitovich]

Originally posted by Ellen M.
You had me at Tom Cruise sucks!

You must not have seen "A Few Good Men."

[Furious D]

Originally posted by ankitovich
You must not have seen "A Few Good Men."

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!

I thought A FEW GOOD MEN was one of the most overrated movies of the 90's. Full of stereotype characters, overwrought melodrama, and all kinds of posturing and what I call "look at me, I'm acting" moments.

But don't get me started on that, I can get a bit vitriolic on the cult of Aaron Sorkin.

PS: To Truepictures & Ellen M., would you two like to get a room or something.;) :p

[ankitovich]

Originally posted by Furious D
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!

I can get a bit vitriolic on the cult of Aaron Sorkin.


Well "The West Wing" is pretty good. Perhaps he knows what he's doing.

[truepictures]

Originally posted by Furious D

PS: To Truepictures & Ellen M., would you two like to get a room or something.;) :p

I love everyone who dislikes Tom Cruise and sees him as an overrated actor.

A Few Good Men was a good movie with brilliant performances, which is why some may think it was a great movie. All were brilliant except for that 'no-talent assclown' Tom "look at me, I'm cool and i like to throw my hands in the air a lot and wear sunglasses from the 80's" Cruise.

[El Duderino Diablo]

Originally posted by truepictures
I love everyone who dislikes Tom Cruise and sees him as an overrated actor.

A Few Good Men was a good movie with brilliant performances, which is why some may think it was a great movie. All were brilliant except for that 'no-talent assclown' Tom "look at me, I'm cool and i like to throw my hands in the air a lot and wear sunglasses from the 80's" Cruise.

You forgot the standard Tom Cruise technique - squint the eyes, clench the jaw and get that little muscle at the corner of said jaw hopping like a dosed up meth freak.

Now that's acting!

[Rory L. Aronsky]

Originally posted by ankitovich
Well "The West Wing" is pretty good. Perhaps he knows what he's doing.

Not anymore. Aaron Sorkin was fired before season 5 started (Thomas Schlamme, the top director on the show left as well) and John Wells, an executive producer on the show and head of "ER" took over all the major duties. Because of what he's done, the show really has no care for the characters anymore. The politics take precedence now as opposed to the characters dealing with those politics. I was a huge fan of The West Wing before season 5 and I guess I'm just watching it now to see when it crashes and burns. Call it morbid curiosity.

[cooke]

hello

last samurai is totally right wing, wishing we all lived in a more coded and ordered society of masters and servants and serfs and landlords, where people really knew their place and would gladly dies for a few inches of soil.

nice one tom.

i hope they all go to hell.

oh, happy new year everyone. hope you all had a good xmas and that!

[truepictures]

Ahh serfs, that takes me back to social studies class in high school.

I haven't heard anything of a Saddam movie, have any of you?

I did hear, however, that it was the Kurdish police force that helped locate Saddam first and then the US took over.

I wonder how the film will interpret the capture, whenever someone finally gets around to doing it. Maybe there should be a filmthreat production.

[Furious D]

Originally posted by truepictures
I haven't heard anything of a Saddam movie, have any of you?

My sources, who are many, widespread and most likely imaginary have uncovered some proposals for a Saddam/Gulf War 2 movie:

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER IS THE BUSHINATOR! Nope, it's not a porno about straying hands. In it Gov. Ah-nold takes a vacation from politics to play an ass kicking cyborg named DUBYAH-2004 who single handedly dishes out heaping helpings of whoop-ass on the baddies of the world. In the climax he drags the cowering Saddam Hussein (played by Christopher Walken) out of the hole under an outhouse. The catchphrase: I'LL BE BACK...FOR RE-ELECTION! Written by Bruce Willis & Condoleeza Rice and Directed by James Cameron, if he ever gets off his ass again... :p

MICHAEL MOORE'S BOWLING FOR BAGHDAD In this film a heroic and daring Saddam Hussein (played by Tim Robbins) defeats the American Army single handed, and then flies to Washington. There he beats up George W. and declares Hilary Clinton (Janeane Garafolo) Queen of the United States. It'll be a box-office blockbuster among Baby Boomers unwilling to admit that they secretly vote Republican and sweep the Oscars. I hear the script is being developed by Moore, and the former Iraqi Minister of Information.:p

JOEL SCHUMACHER'S BUSHMAN RETURNS I don't know what the story's going to be, but I heard that Schumacher is adding nipples to Bush's suits and is thinking George Clooney as Dubya, Val Kilmer as Saddam, and Nicole Kidman as Laura Bush.

Ya just can't beat hot news like this.

[truepictures]

Furious D
Your post captures both of the extreme sides of politics AND it incorporates joel schumacher's impeccably delicious and disturbing taste in nipple suits. very refreshing.

Here's a suggestion for the FilmThreat production of Saddam Huseein's movie:

Saddam: Inside, beneath, around, and within the lice

It will follow Saddam's daily hygenic routine. We see his downfall is directly related to the brand of shaving cream and toothpaste he uses.

[cooke]

do you remember (not that long ago) just weeks before the bombing began, bush promised saddam amnesty and freedom if he left the country? it got down to the wire with saddam saying he would like to know how long he had? bush wouldnt tell him and surprised even america's allies by bombing early? well now, all of a sudden it was all about the capture of a dictator? an axis of evil? fuck no! bush was promising saddam he could leave to a nice nuetral country and he didnt mind him going into exile and, by extension, bush didnt give a shit about the plight of the iraqi people, or saddams human rights record (which was, after all, linked to arms and chemical sales from the US, anyway... the last thing bush could stand now would be a trial outside iraq, where saddams defence would be that his evil regime was supported by numerous US administrations, a warm relationship that only began to crack with the invasion of kuwait)...

dont think that stuff will make the final cut of SADDAM'S Capture the movie. surely it would run like Saving Jessica's Privates? car crash leads to free hospital treatment interrupted by US troops storming unguarded hospital, guns a blazing!

...anyway, just wanted to remind you before you blamed it all on michael moore...

the only sin he ever committed seemed to be that fucking awful film 'canadian bacon'....

shit that was bad.

[Furious D]

Originally posted by truepictures
Furious D
Your post captures both of the extreme sides of politics AND it incorporates joel schumacher's impeccably delicious and disturbing taste in nipple suits. very refreshing.


Thanks for the praise. Whenever I do satire I try to shit on both sides of an issue equally. Sadly, such satire's a waning art, since most people think political satire is having someone repeatedly yelling "Bush is a weenie!" And if you don't find that funny they'll just yell it louder and louder.

He just might be the biggest oil-sucking weenie on the planet, but that doesn't mean that the people who are opposed to him are all that and a bag of chips. A lot of them were only opposed to the war simply because Bush is a Republican and cared nothing for the human rights abuses, corruption, and terrorist backing of the Saddam regime.

To me everyone who lets political ideology dictate reality, no matter how unreal their ideology is, is officially a weenie.

Don't get me started on Michael Moore.

And don't get me started on those damn Joel Schumacher nipple suits!

[cooke]

i didnt know that the function of satire was to shit all over the place. i thought that was the function of a weak anus? anyway, can furious remind everyone for the war why they should be? and those oppossed why they shouldn't be? or something like that... or is the satirical mastermind to busy shitting on both sides of the fence?

[Furious D]

:eek:Sounds like I touched a nerve.:eek:

Well, I could go on for pages and pages outlining reason pro and con for the war but what I say doesn't mean shit. Those who support the war will do till the end even if WMD is never found. They will then shift over to Saddam's corruption, use of rape and torture as a form of government policy, and frequent acts of aggression against his neighbours & his own people.

And those who don't will oppose it even if they do find enough nerve gas to kill the entire population of the planet buried in the desert, it still won't be enough. They'll just cover their ears and recite the mantra: "It's only for oil, it's only for oil..."

Now about some points cooke made in an earlier post. Bush did offer Saddam a chance to run. Saddam refused, knowing that anywhere he went he'd be a dead man with angry Iraqi's hunting him down. Bush knew he'd turn it down, but made the offer to try to appease Saddam's supporters in the UN. It didn't work and the war was on.

The rescue of Jessica Lynch was never claimed by the military to have been a battle or a shootout. Nor did anyone actually find real evidence of Special Forces 'shooting the place up.' The soldiers didn't know what lay in the hospital, it could have been empty, it could have been crawling with Saddam loyalists. So, they whipped out devices that you toss into a room you're uncertain off. They make a lot of noise and smoke and clues everybody in the building to get out of your way. If the Yanks did choose to 'go in guns blazing' the hospital would have been destroyed. Now some reporters, looking to fill up time tried to make it look like the next D-Day landing.

Also her car didn't crash in an accident. They were attacked and people were shot and killed. Her 'free hospital care' also included an alleged rape that the media seems to have lost interest in.

Also the Iraq/USA relationship basically consisted of the USA selling Iraq weapons when he went to war with Iran. At the time Saddam had avoided direct conflict with the Americans, something the Iranians did by taking Americans hostage during their revolution. The bulk of Saddam's international, support about 90% of it, came from France and Russia. They did it in exchange for cheap oil. A relationship that was maintained during the embargo with tankers full of oil that were supposed to be traded for food and medicine instead being sold to France & Russia in exchange for weapons and luxury goods for Saddam & his cronies.

There's a lot of disinformation on all sides over this issue. That tends to force people who can't or won't dig for the truth just spew slogans and rehash confused & muddled arguments in place of facts. Know the facts before you go in.

[truepictures]

Originally posted by Furious D
There's a lot of disinformation on all sides over this issue. That tends to force people who can't or won't dig for the truth just spew slogans and rehash confused & muddled arguments in place of facts. Know the facts before you go in.


What is your main source for the information? Or do you "dig" everywhere? I'm curious to verify some of the things you have mentioned in your post.

I am also curious because, in the future, I'd like to try and find a media source without a bias. And no matter what chant Bill O'Reilly offers in way of a slogan, he is the biggest spinster, this side of a drunken lunatic doing ballet.

Ok, I got carried away over there.

Tom Cruise still sucks.

What do you make of Barbara Streissand? I'm a supporter of the forward thinking liberals, but I personally wish that Barbara would leave politics alone and do whatever it is that she's supposedly good at.

[Furious D]

Originally posted by truepictures
What is your main source for the information? Or do you "dig" everywhere? I'm curious to verify some of the things you have mentioned in your post.

What do you make of Barbara Streissand? I'm a supporter of the forward thinking liberals, but I personally wish that Barbara would leave politics alone and do whatever it is that she's supposedly good at.

I can't really give you a set list because I literally go all over looking for the facts. They include newspapers, websites, opinion columns from the right & left, CNN, Canadian TV news, but I don't get Fox News in my area though I have heard of O'Reilly & his big mouth.

The one thing I definitely do is ignore the opinions of Celebrities when it comes to political issues. They often rely on barely coherent soundbites to base their opinions on, and have a tendency to jerk to the extreme on any issue. Left or right.

By American standards I'm practically a Canadian Communist. I support free health care and doing our utmost to avoid conflicts. But I also don't care for guys like Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, and Usama Bin Laden. And I have little patience for folks who think we should coddle them just because they would like to see the western world destroyed.

People criticize the Bush Administration for their fingerprint scanners at airports, comparing them to Nazi atrocities, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until they wheel out the industrial meat grinder and announce that it's their new tool for police interrogation.:eek:

And yes, Tom Cruise does suck. His characters are just too damn cocky.;)

[Ellen M.]

A media source without bias?... Good luck!
Maybe on some remote tropical island in the Pacific?...

I just HATE the fact that because we are a military & economic superpower, we are expected to police the world! The answer I usually get to that issues, is generally the same as asking why a dog can lick his balls... because he CAN!

And I agree that celebs should keep their mouths shut on political issues (especially when they try to make a "statement" in a public forum, like an awards ceremony). They're perfectly entitled to their views, just don't go trying to shove them down our throats! Gaaaaaahhhhhh!

Ellen ;)

[ankitovich]

Originally posted by truepictures
I'm a supporter of the forward thinking liberals,

Okay kids, all together now: OXYMORON.

Anyhow I am completely with you furious on most issues. There is an awful lot of fickleness and inconsistency within the elite liberal media and social establishments, and its too bad they cannot tolerate clear, rational and resolute thinking. Furthermore I do not believe that we ought to be policing the world either, but as the world's premier power we have the most to lose if something goes wrong, and there fore if for no other reason but to protect our own people and interests, it is at times necessary to adopt an interventionist strategy, particularly during these dangerous times. I may be one of the only people on this thread that actually watches Bill O'Reilly on the O'Reilly Factor and so I will say this from a perspective of experience. O'Reilly is brash, stubborn and obnoxious but he is not partisan. He likes the sound of his own voice, and so at times he can come across as obtuse, but he is very smart and tough, and because of that, he gets the most out of those he interviews. He is not a conservative puppet, and you can evidence this by the fact that he has had virtually every Democratic candidate for President on the Factor, and has conducted some tremendously interesting, fair and respectful interviews with them. He will take you to task and make you say what you mean without circumlocution, and that is why he has the most watched news program on cable television (as opposed to Larry King on the Clinton News Network, who has made a career of being buddy buddy with his guests and tossing them softball touchy feely questions). Just because Hillary Clinton (who may very be the most dishonest Clinton around) refuses to appear on the Factor doesn't make O'Reilly malicious or partisan. In fact, her refusal is a testament to his journalistic integrity and toughness.

[Ellen M.]

Point taken on O'Reilly.
I have seen his show, and he does deal in facts, not partisan, puppetry bullshit. He takes people to the mat & asks tough questions (which a lot of folks can't handle). And yes, he's rather brash & arrogant & loves to hear himself talk, BUT, it is sometimes fun to watch him make people squirm. At least the man doesn't wear suspenders!

Ellen ;)

[Furious D]

Originally posted by Ellen M.
A media source without bias?... Good luck!
Maybe on some remote tropical island in the Pacific?...
Ellen ;)

I know there's bias everywhere. That's why I try to look for different opinions whereever I can find it. If you think the American Media is biased you should see Canadian News.

In Canadian News: Dubya, Israel, and the USA are the source of all the world's problems, the Canadian government, specifically the ruling Canadian Liberal Party has the sun, moon and stars shining out of their collective back passage, and anyone who opposes them are extremist left or right wing nuts. If you only saw Canadian news you'd think Saddam was not a vicious aggressive dictator, just misunderstood.

I still watch the Canadian news, but I also watch American news and search for other sources and opinions, something the internet is good for. I literally go everywhere and back again. I almost never agree completely with someone, but I often find certain facts compelling.

As for Bill O'Reilly, I've never seen much of him, so I can't really judge what he says, just that he has a tendency for blustery soundbites that his critics like to use against him. That whole lawsuit against Al Franken was a tactical mistake that just put Franken's whiny, unfunny and often just plain insulting book on the bestseller list.

[El Duderino Diablo]

Originally posted by Furious D
I know there's bias everywhere. That's why I try to look for different opinions whereever I can find it. If you think the American Media is biased you should see Canadian News.

In Canadian News: Dubya, Israel, and the USA are the source of all the world's problems, the Canadian government, specifically the ruling Canadian Liberal Party has the sun, moon and stars shining out of their collective back passage, and anyone who opposes them are extremist left or right wing nuts. If you only saw Canadian news you'd think Saddam was not a vicious aggressive dictator, just misunderstood.


I take it you're refferring to the CBC?
Now, if you want to talk about biased media...
Out here on the wet coast we have a virtual CanWest/Global monopoly going on. They own both of our major papers, a dozen community papers and and a couple of television stations one of which is the most watched news source in the province. Being Asper family owned they tend to be pro-Isreal, pro-Bush, pro-federal Liberals and, because they want and expect provincial gov't. advertising dollars, ridiculously pro-provincial Liberal (something that really chaps my ass). It's tough as hell to get a balanced, objective source of news out here. Hell, it's nigh on impossible. It feels as if Premier Gorgon Campbell could go on a murder spree slaughtering orphans in the streets and so long as he makes a tearful apology followed by stern claims of how the orphan slaughter will save the province xxx million dollars over the next three years then all will be forgiven.
Okay, I may be exagerating a bit about the orphan slaughter. I'm bitter. The provincial gov't. and Canwest/Global really anger me.

[Furious D]

I was talking about the CBC and to a lesser extent CTV. Canwest Global doesn't have the stranglehold here on the east coast that they do in the west. They did own a couple of our local newspapers, but sold them off to people who actually knew how to run newspapers.

They actually made me miss former Canadian Press OverLord Conrad Black. When he disagreed with a columnist or a reporter, he would debate them via letters to the editor. Those debates were always erudite and entertaining, and even if you disagreed with him it was way better than the bullying and firing tactics of CanWest Global.

WARNING! CONTAINS UNINTELLIGIBLE CANADIAN CONTENT
I wonder if the buddy-buddy relationship the Aspers had with Chretien will continue now that Izzy's dead and Paul Martin's now the Prime Minister?

[El Duderino Diablo]

Originally posted by Furious D

WARNING! CONTAINS UNINTELLIGIBLE CANADIAN CONTENT
I wonder if the buddy-buddy relationship the Aspers had with Chretien will continue now that Izzy's dead and Paul Martin's now the Prime Minister?

I don't know. The Martin gov't. is, I'm sure, going to be more pro-business and significantly more right of center than the Chretien Liberals. Leonard Asper is in control of CanWest now and he seems to be a chip off the old block. I suspect it'll all hinge on where Martin stands on the whole Israel/Palestine issue among other things like whether he'd be willing to grant Lenny one of his old man's greatest wet dreams: doing away with the CBC whom Izzy always wanted out of the news business.

[Ellen M.]

Hey!...
We're supposed to be discussing the evil media & Saddam, not having a Canadian Lovefest! Didn't you guys get enough bacon & brew in the "Who's the Funniest Country" thread?

Kidding! I'm just jealous that my fellow Americans aren't as funny, interesting, or socially progressive as you folks up north!

Ellen ;)

[truepictures]

Originally posted by ankitovich
Okay kids, all together now: OXYMORON.



It seems like you're the only one on these posts who is willing to take both sides into consideration. By trying to mock progressive thinkers, you are in fact, alienating yourself in these posts. Please take into consideration that tons of perspectives exist outside of your own box.

Bill O'Reilly seems to be very self-loving and that is why you probably take a liking to him.

As far as Canada is concerned . . . I have no clue what goes on there, but I enjoy the free health care plan.

Saddam and Osama and Il Jong are all seemingly very wrongful people, but why is an entire war needed to destroy these people?

I have no idea about war tactics, but wouldn't a secret military force be sufficient to usurp these people?

I'm with cooke on the pacifism.

Hillary Clinton is stupid. Come back Ralph Nader.

[El Duderino Diablo]

Originally posted by Ellen M.
Hey!...
We're supposed to be discussing the evil media & Saddam, not having a Canadian Lovefest! Didn't you guys get enough bacon & brew in the "Who's the Funniest Country" thread?

Kidding! I'm just jealous that my fellow Americans aren't as funny, interesting, or socially progressive as you folks up north!

Ellen ;)

Until you guys made those hurtful mad cow references. :sniffle:
And we spell it eh, eh?
;)

[Furious D]

Originally posted by Ellen M.
Kidding! I'm just jealous that my fellow Americans aren't as funny, interesting, or socially progressive as you folks up north!

Ellen ;)

Sadly Canada's probably not as socially progressive as even we'd like to think. Sure, we're probably going to legalize gay marriage, but that's inevitable. And the whole legal pot issue is mostly blowing smoke...sorry bad pun...

Also our medicare system, once a model of public health, is dying a slow and agonising death thanks to 15+ years of constant funding cutbacks.

We're also ruled by a cadre of petty, small men, in all political parties, who will say anything to get elected, and stay elected, but not actually do anything real or concrete because that might jeopardize their pension funds and post-politics jobs with some of our big corporations. Our Members of Parliament make Yankee Congressmen look positively...well, positive...

Sorry to sound so negative about a country I love. But it has a lot of skeletons in the closet, and our smug self righteous attitude sometimes pisses me off.:mad:

Not to say we don't enjoy being smug & self righteous, it beats hockey as our national past-time. Eh.:p

[Ellen M.]

Hmmmm...
Perhaps Canada & the U.S. aren't so different after all!

But you guys DO need to change your lax immigration laws in a big way, because a lot of the Muslims who have ties to terrorists groups get into our country via Canada, and that wonderfully "unguarded" border!

And I'm sure the Canadian media is all over the Diana / Dodi murder conspiracy theory! It IS pretty damning that she wrote a letter prophesising her death in an accident & naming Prince Charles as the cause. The French were pretty quick to sweep their investigstion under the rug... Oh wait, this could be a whole new thread! Poor Saddam, nobody really gives a rat's ass about him anymore... he's old news!

Ellen ;)

[Furious D]

Here's a few stories about Canada's screwy immigration policy.

There's confessed terrorist who has successfully fought immigration for 20+ years because he claims he's a refugee and seems to have an infinite money supply for lawyers.

The Immigration Department has just ordered that the foreign born spouses of law-abiding Canadian Citizens have their citizenship revoked and be deported to their home countries so they can reapply as immigrants. A process that can take up to ten years, even more, because they'll be classified as having been deported for being illegal immigrants.

A Serbian Woman who worked for the UN peacekeepers as a translator has to hide in a church basement. Despite having recieved death threats from Serbian Nationalists who consider her a 'traitor & collaborator' the Federal Government refuses to listen to her refugee claim.

Serial killer Charles Ng avoided deportation for years in a refugee claim because he was facing the death penalty in California. The federal government would have kept him and eventually set him free if it wasn't for the massive public outcry over his case.

The wife of Somali Warlord Muhammad Aidid lived in Ontario on welfare while he lived it up by looting UN relief supplies and terrorizing starving people.

There are literally hundreds more stories like these, because we don't really have an immigration policy, just a lot of crazy half-assed ideas that cause more trouble than what they're worth.

Don't get me started on our health care, defence, gun control laws, and foreign policy. They're jokes.

[truepictures]

I think we all should take notice of the fervor within these boards and make sure we all vote this year.

Besides grass roots campaigning, which many of us do not have the time and/or patience for, voting is one of the only ways to bring about change. That or you run for office . . . but if you can't go and protest how are you going to lead a campaign?

If we want change, we're going to have to get it done through voting. That's where our voice is heard. So, let's all make sure we VOTE and encourage others who regularly do not to do so.

[Ellen M.]

Yes, we should all get out there and vote!
But, for WHO?... The republicans are evil, the democrats don't even have a decent frontrunner... and frankly, our 2-party system blows!

We need more independent libertarians like Ralph Nader & Ross Perot (don't laugh), who aren't beholden to anyone (like lobbyists, partisan groups & the media) & actually CARE about making this country a better, safer place!

I say we nominate Chris Gore for president!
Who's with me?...

Ellen ;)

[truepictures]

The truth of the matter is, you can't expect a good candidate. It's all about choosing between the lesser of two evils and in the case of the Democrats, whoever wins the nomination should be voted in.

If we start complaining and say "hey, the democratic candidate isn't strong, i want ralph nader to win" you will just get Bush re-elected. I'm the greenest mofo out there and I'm saying this.

If we forward thinkers don't vote Democrat, we'll have another 4 years of conservative extremism, the environment will be shit, the oil companies will be rich, and Dick Cheney will still never be seen by another breathing American. He'll stay in hiding, stashing away his secrets, signing bills that help his oil company execs that got him his job in the first place and making sure that Texas Oil and Halliburton never go out of business.

Anyway, the point is, grass roots campaings are great and they should be supported, but if we want real change, we will go to the polls and vote Democrat, for now. Now, what we can do is get someone in the White House who is not AS evil as George W. Bush. . . . and take that as a start. Take back the House and the Senate, get some liberal candidates elected as judges, who can make the laws that can help cause REAL CHANGE.

Anyway, yeah.

[ankitovich]

Originally posted by truepictures
Now, what we can do is get someone in the White House who is not AS evil as George W. Bush

See now this is deplorable. To call an American public servant, an American President, an American patriot evil is just wrong. I believe that the President is a good man and a patriot. I believe Bill Clinton is a good man, and so is Howard Dean, John Kerry and Ralph Nader. It disapoints and angers me to no end to see the depths to which the rhetoric in this party has sunken. There is no more civil discourse, with the "miserable failures" and the "evil" people and all of the awful things that people call this President. Hatred, anger, and Bush bashing is no way to live, and certainly no way to win elections. It is too bad that some on this board allow ideologies to cloud intellects, and resort to the sorts of serial name calling that seem to plague the national discourse. If we are going to speak of the candidates, we should in the case of the President have a substantive discussion on what he has enacted and accomplished. On the topic of the contenders we should have a wholesome debate on what their proposals are. What you are doing now with all of the "evil" rhetoric and the one liners on Halliburton is vomiting up the talking points of the DNC. Try to think for yourself, and think hard and long, perhaps you will see the folly in your ways. It is impolite, it is unnecessary, and above all else it is unAmerican.

[El Duderino Diablo]

Originally posted by ankitovich
...and above all else it is unAmerican.

I'm not very American. :shrug:

[truepictures]

Originally posted by ankitovich
To call an American public servant, an American President, an American patriot evil is just wrong . . . It is impolite, it is unnecessasry, and above all else it is unAmerican.

To be an American public servant, one must do those things that are accepted and desired by the American public. Going into an unpopular war is not service, it is arrogance, denial and the kind of decision-making that is seen in regimes that do not practice democracy.

To call me unAmerican or even imply such a harsh allegation is very unbecoming of you. Our great country allows us the right to free speech and dissenting opinion and I am merely practicing it. President George W. Bush has fired people (Paul H. O'Neill, former Secretary of Treasury) who disagree with him. He cannot stand dissent and he will not allow it. I believe you are trying to accomplish something similar, ankitovich. Speaking of the former Secretary of Treasury, this just in:

Larry Downing / Reuters file Report: Bush planned
Iraq invasion before 9/11

Jan. 10, 2004, NEW YORK - Former Treasury
Secretary Paul O’Neill charges in a new book that
President George W. Bush entered office in
January 2001 intent on invading Iraq and was in
search of a way to go about it.

O’Neill, fired in December 2002 as part of a
shake-up of Bush’s economic team, has become the
first major insider of the Bush administration to
launch an attack on the president.

He likened Bush at Cabinet meetings to “a blind
man in a room full of deaf people,” according to
excerpts from a CBS interview to promote a book
by former Wall Street Journal reporter Ron
Suskind, “The Price of Loyalty.”

I, unlike you, ankitovich, see no good in any of the candidates you mentioned in your post. I believe that they are all equally questionable. I believe that all politicians are questionable.

I merely want to support a candidate who is the lesser of two evils. This way, I can at least try to convince him of seeing my point of view and not getting carried away in a frenzy.

And lastly, ankitovich, let's not let our personal disagreements cloud these forums where everyone should have a chance to speak, equally. I think we might be boring our Canadian friends with all this talk of American politics.

Big Fish is awesome. Go watch it today.

[Ellen M.]

One of the great things about this country is a little thing called First Amendment Rights, which allows us to even be able to have free & open discussions about politics, etc.

I agree that this prolly isn't the right forum for a political discussion (for American OR Canadian governmental policy), but there's nothing wrong with having a spirited debate. We're not ALL going to agree, and that's okay. Perhaps the FT forum administrators will open a "Politics" forum, for all of us passionate, intelligent site fans?...

In the mean time, I second the suggestion to go see "Big Fish", it's great!

Ellen :)

[GiGi]

Our Govt. makes some dumbass moves, but on a whole we have it good here in the US. I really get frustrated with all the America bashing, especially when I travel abroad. Really got an earful in Australia, except one old man who said we helped them out when Japan was boming Darwin in WWII. He said we saved them and even cried a little talking about it. Also having lost a relative in every war and conflict except these past 2 gulf conflicts, I guess I have a different insight. I'd like to think they died for something...

This whole war thing has been scary; wondering if it was a bunch of crap, really over oil, really was it over weapons of mass destruction. Are people dying for something that's not a real cause. I even kinda felt sorry for the SOB Saddam after he was caught. I feel for everyone and everything and if I knew for sure what they said abotu Hussein was true, I'd off him myself. But who knows? Thanks to how the media filters information to us, and how we are informed by our govt.

I know one thing, I am going to be a gob more attentive this election.

All I have to say, is...Peace, man.

[Furious D]

In a screwy way the war did lead to the removal of some WMD programs. :confused:

The twist is it's Libya's WMD program that being shut down.

Old Khadaffi doesn't like the Al Qaida crowd nipping at his heels and he doesn't want to be on the Global Shit List anymore, so he's shutting down his own weapons program, cooperating with the UN, unlike Saddam, making reparation settlements with his victims, and closing down his terrorist training camps and turfing their occupants.

Now those are all positive steps, but if I was Dubya, I'd like to get my hands on his copious intelligence files. Libyan Intelligence has had the Middle East wired for the past 30+ years. Thanks to Khadaffi's paranoia, which is because everyone really was out to get him, his people probably know all the major terrorist players and where a lot of them are.

As for Iraqi WMD, I once heard a former UN inspector say that it would take at least a year after total peace in Iraq to even start an effective search. And even then, with Iraq's vast spaces they might never be found. There is a paper trail of questionable 'dual use' goods being shipped to Iraq and then vanishing. They literally could be anywhere, even in Syria or Iran.

I also heard some theories that Saddam's one people were faking the paper trail, convincing Saddam and the world that there really was a program, only to pocket the money themselves. Wouldn't that be a strangely fitting ending to this age of questionable truth.

So we may never know what he was up to until some farmer's plough accidentally pops open a buried barrel of mustard gas 20 years from now.

Sadly, we all hope for peace, but we live in an age of war. Hell, this is part of the mess left behind by WW1.

[truepictures]

Originally posted by Ellen M.
One of the great things about this country is a little thing called First Amendment Rights, which allows us to even be able to have free & open discussions about politics, etc.


I'm a huge supporter of first amendment rights, it's just the matter of fact that ankitovich bites my head off in real life enough with the arguments, so I don't like to put up with him on Filmthreat which is my island away from his madness.

Libya, from what I hear, is giving way to inspections, from what I understand, because of sanctions and not because they are afraid of Mr. Bush.

Gigi, I also hate the America bashing, it really annoys me. And I do care for our men and women overseas, fighting for whatever the government tells them is evil. I feel saddened by how politicians manipulate soldiers into doing their will without really justifying the cause.

That makes me want to never enroll, very much like Bush, Dean, and even some professors that I talked to, they all joined the National Guard when it was time for Vietnam, they didn't want to fight, no one wants to fight. It's really messed up how much power the president holds.

[Ellen M.]

Well, I'm prolly going to get my head bitten off for this, but I think EVERYONE should be afraid of Mr. Bush!

Ellen ;)

P.S. - Big, bad Mr. Khaddafi is a pussy!

[truepictures]

Think about it for one second. Bush was a straight C student all throughout college, he snorted a ton of cocaine, drank with the best of them, and then gave it all up because his wife told him to. What we need to do is get Laura Bush into some type of a hypnosis and convince her that war is not good. Then, Bush will follow her advice and we'll all be happy.

Either that or get him out of office this November.

[Ellen M.]

Amen to that!
And let's not forget his dismal record as Governor of Texas on issues like education & the environment, or the fact that he couldn't even run an oil company or a baseball team.

He needs to go, but I'm not sure that we have an stellar democratic candidates who can step up & save the day.

As for Khaddafi being a pussy, I just find it interesting that these guys love to posture & threaten (as they're keeping their people in poverty & ignorance), but when the shit hits the fan, they suddenly lose their bravado. Maybe they don't want sanctions, but I think they also don't want to suffer the same type of humiliation as Saddam has, at the hands of the Americans.

Ellen ;)

[ankitovich]

Originally posted by truepictures
I'm a huge supporter of first amendment rights, it's just the matter of fact that ankitovich bites my head off in real life enough with the arguments,

:D

Originally posted by truepictures
Libya, from what I hear, is giving way to inspections, from what I understand, because of sanctions and not because they are afraid of Mr. Bush.

Oh really? Sanctions have existed since Lockerbie in 1987. So Colonel Khadaffi just happened to select the winter of 2003 as the time to supposedly cave in to sanctions? If you are going to preach to the choir then at least speak the truth every now and then.

Originally posted by truepictures
It's really messed up how much power the president holds.

It's called a republic, buddy.

Originally posted by Ellen M.
And let's not forget his dismal record as Governor of Texas on issues like education & the environment

You need to be better informed. Test scores improved more under his watch then ever before. 60 Minutes did a piece on this several years ago and it was recently rebroadcasted. If you missed it perhaps you can check out the thousands of articles written about the miraculous improvement in the Houston public school system under Governor Bush's watch. This man was reelected, and it wasn't just because of his last name.

Originally posted by Ellen M.
he couldn't even run an oil company or a baseball team.

That may be, but he's doing a heck of a job cutting taxes, protecting the nation and improving healthcare. Baseball just may not be his forte.

Originally posted by truepictures
Think about it for one second. Bush was a straight C student all throughout college, he snorted a ton of cocaine, drank with the best of them, and then gave it all up because his wife told him to.

You know I love how truephotos finds a way to sneak in the Green Party's Bush hating platform. I also love how President Kennedy (who had roughly the same personal profile as this President) is revered and remembered positively despite it all. These personal attacks launched by these latte swilling lefty LALA land Streisand liberals are clear evidence that they haven't an issue that they can stand on in this election. This President has stolen the Healthcare issue with the Medicare prescription drug benefit. He has seized the economic issue by passing tax cuts that have contained an inherited recession and have put the nation back on solid and unspectacular growth (which is exactly what we need). He owns the National Security debate with his prosecution of the War on Terror and the Democratization of the Islamic world. This man, despite what truepoloroid and his Tammy Wynette cotinuously assert, has grabbed the attention and trust of the American people through his vast agenda, his substantive work, and his compassionate conviction. Not since President Reagan have we seen such an eventful four years, if the mainstream American electorate have anything to say about it, we shall have four more years. I urge all moderates on this board to clean up this debate, and to make more civil the discourse. If you have legitimate gripes with the President and his policies, then that is fair game and you should be heard. But taking the low road and resorting to insidious drive by personal attacks like some of the extremists on this board leaves us all dumber and blinder for it.

[Ellen M.]

Yep, Elvis Costello said it best!

Anti, I sense much anger in you...
Can't we all just get along?...

Ellen ;)

[truepictures]

Originally posted by ankitovich
But taking the low road and resorting to insidious drive by personal attacks like some of the extremists on this board leaves us all dumber and blinder for it.

I merely was making a joke, taking a poke at Bush's lifestyle before he was into politics when he was leading lives similar to those of other famous Republicans such as Rush Limbaugh and Governor Ahnold.

Ellen, you only have to read this stuff, I actually have to hear and see it daily . . . It's not pretty.

And, if we all did get along then extremists such as ankitofilth will have nothing to talk about.

[El Duderino Diablo]

So, I'm curious as to just what the fuck Bush being gov. of Texas had to do with test scores going up in the Lone Star state? Was he visiting everyone at home and personally tutoring the wee children?

[Ellen M.]

Originally posted by truepictures
Ellen, you only have to read this stuff, I actually have to hear and see it daily . . . It's not pretty.

So, why don't you two just beat the shit out of each other, then have a few beers & be done with it?!...

And by the way, test scores don't mean a damn thing... Numbers can always be manipulated!

Ellen

[truepictures]

Ellen, because if we did that, I would be no different than Bush. ;)

Numbers are manipulated to no end.

The Dude, very good point.

Speaking of facts, I watched the HBO documentary "Journeys with George" where Congresswoman Pelosi's daughter is on the Bush press corps while they are going to different states before the elections, and in it, there is mention of phone calls being made to Southerners by the Bush team asking them

"If Senator John McCain had an illegitimate child with a black woman, would you still vote for him in the Republican primaries"

Note, that they didn't actually say he was . . . just were asking a question that they were curious about. Hmmmm.