State of the Union

[Ellen M.]

I hate to get all political & Bush-whacking, but can anyone riddle me this?...

What the hell does gay marriage & steroids have to do with national security, or the state of our country?!

Ellen :confused:

[ankitovich]

The President showed his concern for America's children. He felt the need to confront head on the issues of role models and the roles that they play in the lives of children via their own actions. Steroids are dangerous drugs that send the wrong message to children and wreak havoc on all human bodies. Same sex relationships are not the types of arrangements that are conducive to healthy children, because every child needs a mother and a father. I was happy to see the President speak out on both issues and I would hope that we all take his words to heart because America will only be secure when its children are completely protected in every respect.

[Ellen M.]

Help me out here Truepictures!...

I think you're in the wrong place Antikovich...
I respect your views, but this is NOT the Young Republicans website.

I DO NOT want the government(or the church) dictating to me what substances people CAN or CANNOT use, or what IS and IS NOT a marriage! That is totally unconstitutional and a violation of human rights! And, these issues have NOTHING to do with protecting our country from terrorists or the economy!

Yes, steroids hurt the people that use them, but if our society didn't worship athletes like gods, then they wouldn't have to use roids to up their performances to insane levels. And how is 2 people of the same sex wanting to be together as partners with benefits a threat to heterosexual marriage? We're ALL just people trying to make it in this world!

Anyone gonna back me up here???...
Ellen :mad:

[The Baron]

Keeping with the present administration's philosophy of "putting aside the Constitution" for a moment, and falling back on their personal favorite "law book", the Bible, it looks to me like Der Fuher Dubya and his buddies want to take away the literally God-given right of free will.

We HAVE laws to protect children. Maybe we're overprotecting the youth of America, and that's why they're growing up to be weak-minded adults who simply do what they're told to do. We need laws to teach children how to think for themselves. We need to prepare them for the world, not shelter them from it. Protection should not equal indoctrination into ignorance.

Hey, wait a minute... Doesn't sex out of wedlock constitute harm to children, at least from the administration's point of view. STONE THOSE FORNICATORS! What happens if a child's mother or father dies, and they no longer have one or another parent? Well, by their own logic, the widowed parent should be forced to marry someone else... IMMEDIATELY! If we deny gays the right to marry, what next? Does the government officially declare them to be unclean?

Oh, SHIT! I'm tattooed! I'm in violation of Deuteronomy!

How about taking that $87 BILLION that's being thrown away in Iraq, and funneling it into the U. S. economy? I know I'd like a friggin' job! Unemployment figures are down? That because people's Unemployment is running out, and they can't re-file. Unemployment isn't down... Americans are just falling into the cracks where there are no demographics.

Mr. President, why are we the most hated country in the world?

Why is it that everyday, people go to bed hungry in the richest country in the world? Why do Americans go without healthcare because they can't afford it?

Mr. President, why do you continue to lie to the American people?

Isn't it time that the President start taking care of the American people, instead of eroding away at our most basic human rights?

Ellen, I'm with you all the way. I'm a very angry American who wants answers to the questions and solutions to the problems. Sadly, all this administration is giving us is spin and double-talk.

It's time someone pulled the knife out of the collective back of the American people.

[Ellen M.]

YEAH!!!... What he said!

Thanks Baron for stepping in & expounding on the blatant fascism that seems to be emanating from the Bush administration! Doesn't this scare anyone else???

Ellen :mad:

[Geo]

Okay, first off this is neither a "young Republican" nor a "communist Democrat" web site. I joined to talk about movies and film making, but there are several issues with this thread that I must address.

Ellen M- First off, telling Antikovich that you, "...think you're in the wrong place..." is a suppression of opposition which oddly enough is a facet of Fascism. In fact since I hear that word so often misused or hypocritically (as in this case) here is the definition for the benefit of all readers:

Fascism- often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

The Baron- Why are we the most hated country in the world? I disagree that we are most hated, but well set that aside. Why are we hated, I see envy. Our economy is fantastic, we are the richest country in the world. One American citizen is so rich he would be the 50th richest nation (Bill Gates, new money at that). Government like Cubas call us Fascist and Imperialist and then beg us for trade. My take on it is caused Envy mostly with religion a distant second.

"Why is it that everyday, people go to bed hungry in the richest country in the world?" I really don't know. My family came here with nothing, fleeing communism and seeking asylum. They did not even speak the language. They took no government aid and were on their feet and running within a year- middle class in 5- and lower upper class in 15. I have no idea how anyone born here, educated here, and given the opportunities this country gives us goes to bed hungry. I really don't know.

You mention religion over and over, but please remember that there has been only ever one catholic president and he was a Democrat and fought for social equality. I may not agree with religion myself, but to invalidate someone for their beliefs is to be very short sighted.

[Furious D]

WHY CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG!!!!

I know that it's the de-rigeur thing to go after Dubya, but as an avid consumer of history I can tell you something about America. You don't know what oppression, even in a democracy, really is.

In France they're banning religious symbols in schools, hospitals and government buildings. The French government is saying it's being done to protect secularism in their country. In fact it's to put the screws to their exploding Muslim population and their women's wearing of the traditional hijab. Such a law wouldn't even be considered by any American government Republican or Democrat. The French love to call the Americans fascist and imperialist, but not many people know this, but until very recently torture was legal in France. It was kept secret, but it was still legal, something that was banned in America in the 1700s. And don't get me started on French Imperialism, anyone who knows the deep dark side of history can trace almost all political problems of today to French imperialism of the past 200 years.

In Canada, my home country, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have raided the home and office of a journalist and seized all her notes, and computers. This journalist wrote critical articles about their botching of a terrorist related investigation that resulted in a probably innocent computer salesmen being deported to Syria where he was imprisoned and tortured. If the FBI raided the Washington Post, there'd be political hell to pay. In Canada, where it's basically a 1 party state, it's not much more than a footnote in the news.

And these countries are supposed to be democracies. They make John Ashcroft look like the chairman of the ACLU.

:mad:As for why the people of the world hate Americans?

I have a theory. Look at the patterns of immigration into America. The country's population is descended from British dissidents, starving Irish, Polish, German, and Italian refugees, African slaves, and Hispanics from Latin America.

These are all people who were conquered and/or driven out of their country by poverty or oppression. In their homelands they were considered the losers, and yet they built the richest and most powerful nation the world has ever seen. The world is filled with 'pure' nations and former empires with deep histories that are mere shadows of their former selves. And yet here is the USA, a 'decadent mongrel state' standing as the world's hyperpower.

This really sticks in their craw. They want the wealth and the power, but don't want to be more like America to get it.

This envy takes the form of raw hatred (Al-Qaida) or smug condecension and criticism (France), and both seek to take the USA down a peg or two.

As for your economy and health care? Canada's medicare system's falling apart and will soon be cut back into oblivion. And I heard that the USA has an unemployment rate of between 5% and 6%. In Canada, if unemployment goes under 10% we nominate our prime minister for sainthood.

Consider yourself lucky.:D

[Ellen M.]

Thanks D for your very profound observations about why people hate America. I agree completely, because I'm a 2nd generation descendant of grandparents who's families fled eastern Europe's religious persecution & economic hardships. Their bold moves & sacrafices afforded me the opportunity to live in a free democracy (and have the privilige of sitting here posting my thoughts on this forum).

There is no country on the planet that can claim it's a utopian society, but we DO have it pretty damn good here. The Bush administration scares me on a lot of levels, but perhaps "fascism" wasn't the proper term I was looking for. I'm actually not a political person, but I do feel strongly that our 2 party system just doesn't work very well... that's another discussion for another day, though!

And just for the record... THE FRENCH SUCK!
Ellen ;)

[Geo]

Yea, they suck. Somewhere after World War I they started the suckage vortex and today it's like a black hole.

Now Film Noir is pretty good, but Jerry Lewis...

[The Baron]

Just for the record, I'm a pretty middle-of-the-road guy, politically speaking. I know how good we have it here compared to many other places in the world, but I also remember better times. It's when I perceive that our liberties are threatened, that I get up on my stubborn hind legs and say something.

I, too, am second generation American. My grandfather escaped Russia in 1918, at the start of the Revolution. Had he stayed, he would most certainly have been assassinated, as our family served the Romanov dynasty for about 300 years, and he was a member of Nicholas II's court.

America is a pretty wonderful place, relatively speaking. I'd like to keep it that way.

As far as the world hating America, I've spent a great deal of time traveling throughout Europe this past year, and the people I met didn't hate Americans. They hate the Bush government.

And oh yeah... The French suck big time.

[Furious D]

Ellen M.:- If you think that a two party system doesn't work. You should try Canada's de-facto 1 party system. Here the amount of representation in our parliament is controlled by two provinces Quebec and Ontario. This has ensured that our reigning 'Liberal' party, which isn't very liberal, and our Prime Minister has absolute control over everything. There are no checks or balances, and our opposition parties are so heavily divided and out of our centres of power that there isn't a chance of any political change coming within my lifetime.

The cronyism and corruption has reached a point where you have to laugh, or you'll end up screaming.

Baron:- The people of the former empires of Europe don't exactly hate Bush. What they hate is the fact that he is willing to use America's immense power to strike back at its enemies. That's what bugs them about Bush. They preferred Clinton, who said all the right things, distracted the media from real issues by getting entangled in extramarital peccadiloes, but, in fact, did nothing. Just like one of their politicians.

But Bush is using the USA's proverbial big stick, doesn't give a rat's left ass cheek what they think about it, and that scares the proverbial piss out of them. That's because their biggest fear, and they'll never admit it, is that America would use that power the way they would if they had it.

Thankfully the odds of America becoming the crypto-fascist dictatorship you fear are slim. There are too many checks and balances, and too many people invested heavily in keeping America free.

You can criticize Bush all you want, he's done some pretty dumb moves. You will probably always be free to do so.

[truepictures]

Sorry everyone. Tonight was the screening for my short, a year anniversary, I think I'm going to stop public screenings of it after this one, it went really well.

A few issues I'd like to address here:

Ankitofilth, let's start with you.

President Bush helps out corporations. He gets money from corporations, corporations have put him where he is today, and he will continue to do what is best for those corporations. As an entreprenneur yourself and an investor in corporate America, clearly you will support all things that are geared towards making a profit. When you bring gay marriage and steroids into the picture, you are saying that it is detrimental to the human being.

President Bush, a man who used hardcore drugs such as crack cocaine and participated in binge drinking for several years, preaching about the harms of steroids is a bit nonsensical and irrelevant when you have 2 million Americans out of jobs.

Ellen M. & Fascism

I totally agree with you Ellen. A two party system is horrible. But Furious, when you say it is better than the one-party system than Canada's, it's like saying "you have the lesser of two evils." And I, as an American, believe that idealistic views and ambitious goals make America the great country that it is. From politics to business, if it wasn't for several people thiking about change, we wouldn't have the great country we live in today.

I'm all for the Green and Independent parties to become more popular, but I just think that politics, very much like film, is grounded in tradition and it takes a lot of strength, a lot of money, and a lot of people to bring about this change.

France

I never liked the French. I would personally like to point out that their hygiene, is in fact, atrocious - I have first hand experience with this. I also don't like it when some of my Republican friends automatically start saying that I'm a "French Lover" . . . because I'm not. But, then again leave it to right winged maniacs like Drudge to continue the great tradition of yellow journalism/sensationalism in our day.

Anyway, I think God and Government should be separate. I think Bush is terrible for America. He believes in less government control when it comes to businesses, but he does not mind adding more government influence in every other facet of our lives.

ps: Dick Cheney is not alive -- he is a vampire and lives off of Halliburton profits -- did anyone else think he was going to fall off his chair during the State of the Union?

[El Duderino Diablo]

I have a tin of Old Fisherman brand Roasted Eel and a can of Yeo's Minced Prawns in spices. I'm not entirely sure what to do with them right now.

[fasteddie]

Dude,

I respect your views, but this is NOT the Old Fisherman brand Roasted Eel website.

[ankitovich]

Originally posted by truepictures
President Bush helps out corporations.

Guilty as charged, especially American small business. You know, the ones that employ the bulk of Americans.

Originally posted by truepictures
He gets money from corporations, corporations have put him where he is today, and he will continue to do what is best for those corporations.

Oh you mean like Enron, Global Crossing, Occidental Petroleum, PACs set up by labor union rackets and the trial lawyer lobby? Oh wait, that's the Clinton Administration. My bad.

Originally posted by truepictures
As an entreprenneur yourself and an investor in corporate America, clearly you will support all things that are geared towards making a profit.

It's the American way. Get acclimated quick.

Originally posted by truepictures
President Bush, a man who used hardcore drugs such as crack cocaine and participated in binge drinking for several years, preaching about the harms of steroids is a bit nonsensical and irrelevant when you have 2 million Americans out of jobs.

First of all the President isn't the only one who suffered from past substance abuse problems. Past Presidents, entrepreneurs, actors, and a large community of students (not excluding yourself) have undoubtedly battled the same demons. What you should focus on is the fact that this man has been sober for two decades, so he, more than anybody, is qualified to speak on substance abuse and its detriments. It isn't preaching, and it isn't nonsensical or irrelevant. He can walk and chew gum at the same time, and he will speak on issues that effect America's children (whether you like it or not), while promoting a pro growth tax relief agenda that will put Americans back to work and push the long term unemployment rate to historical lows.

Originally posted by truepictures
A two party system is horrible.

Perhaps Trueportrait and his Ellen are supporters of fascism after all. Look up the definition.

Originally posted by truepictures
I'm all for the Green and Independent parties to become more popular,

I hate to burst your bubble but the Green movement is an elaborate concoction by the trial lawyer lobby. It is bought and paid for by special interests.

Originally posted by truepictures
But, then again leave it to right winged maniacs like Drudge to continue the great tradition of yellow journalism/sensationalism in our day.

Oh yeah? How about Green sensationalism? Oh wait, that's worth glorifying right?

Originally posted by truepictures
Anyway, I think God and Government should be separate.[/B]

Then perhaps this country is not for you. This great nation was founded and remains deeply rooted in the religious and theological convictions of equality in the presence of an all powerful divine inspiration. If you don't believe me, or in this premise then refer to a little piece written by one Thomas Jefferson in the summer of 1776. In the Declaration of Independence, the future President of the United States wrote:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

If you don't buy in, you may want to look into some real estate in the Yukon territory or Tijuana.

Originally posted by truepictures
Dick Cheney is not alive -- he is a vampire and lives off of Halliburton profits

Is that right? Only as much as Nader is a vampire who lives off of the trial lobby's bank account. Or perhaps the Clintons living off of the illegitimate and illegally garnered Global Crossing (remember them?) fortune of Gary Winnick. You, sir, are not an equal opportunity character assasin. Your ilk see only what you care to see, and allow ideology to shroud intellect.

[Ellen M.]

Awww guys, you're KILLING me here!

Yes, Antikovich you've got me... I'm a fascist! I've been trying to cover it up all of these years, but I've got to face up to it! Do you know of any good Fascist 12 Step recovery programs??? You know, I've attended a few pro-choice rallies too... Guess I'm going to Un-American HELL! PUH-LEEZE!

And just to stir up this boiling pot of shit a little more... I MISS BILL CLINTON! That's right, I said it folks! I didn't care for what he did in his personal life, and the riduculous amounts of time, $ and attention it got (and don't even try to bust my balls on this, because his shenanigans are commonplace in British & French political circles!). But the economy was great, people in this country were generally pleased, and the government wasn't trying to regulate my life (or cut rich people & corporations tons of slack)!

And as for the French... They haven't won a war since the Napoleonic era & they'd be speaking GERMAN if we hadn't helped them rebuild their country! And who likes body odor, women with hairy armpits & smegma (look this up if you don't know what it means!)?! And there's the little issue of them being one of THE most anti-semitic nations in Europe (thanks to the Catholic Church)! Last year the French ambassador to the U.S. was quoted as saying, " Israel is a shitty, little country". I'm no zionist, but that kind of statement is way out of line & just reinforces their anti-semitic stance. Oh, and let's not forget that they refused to help us out in Iraq, but conveniently changed their tune, once they realized there was $ to be made in the rebuilding effort. I say F--K the French! I have personally boycotted ALL French goods (wine, cheese, etc.), and I feel our government should either boycott, or severely tax & restrict import of all French products. I DO love French films, but those bastards need to be taught a lesson at the school of American Whup-Ass!

Merde & Mangez Moi!
Ellen :mad:

[Furious D]

THIS IS THE LAST WORD ON THIS TOPIC!
_________________________________________________
TRUEPICTURES: name calling like 'Ankitofilth' just makes you and your arguments sound childish. It's a Michael Moore tactic and he's doing more to discredit the American Left than a million Dubya's.

As for the accusations of corporate involvement in Bush's campaigns. Well, you can't get elected without corporate involvement in some form. It's just too damn expensive. Howard Dean, the poster boy of radical Democrats, is mostly the creation of a pair of Silicone Valley millionaires who run that Move On site.
__________________________________________________
ANKITOVICH: The sun, moon and stars don't shine out of the crack of Dubya's ass. Now he's done some things I agree with and he's done some things I don't agree with.

Sure he's boosted defence after years of neglect during the Clinton years, and the economy is recovering at an exponential rate, despite what the media tells you. And he's kicking the collective ass of those who threaten the western world when most other countries would prefer to close their eyes and hope they go away.

But he's got to do something more concrete about health care, he's got to put some kind of control on America's dependence on foreign oil, (90% of which comes from Canada and Venezuela, not the Middle East.) he needs to strengthen American environmental policy, and he needs to kick the ass of those asshole CEOs that are threatening to screw everything up for everybody.
__________________________________________________
All politicians in the federal arena are tainted by big money and special interest groups. The oligarch's will always try to hold onto power.
__________________________________________________
ELLEN M. : The booming economy of 90's was based upon corporate fraud on an epic scale. Can anyone remember the Dot Coms, and Enron, WorldCom and the other big cheats made it big during the Clinton years. It was also during the Clinton years that HMO's became all powerful even though Bill & Hilary promised a health care plan.

There are also stories of shady campaign financing from China, money laundering, and corruption that were buried under Monica's fat ass. The infidelity stories were just a distraction for the media. Give them a story that could be explained in 1 minute and they'll ignore even bigger corruption.

As for the French, it's true that their last leader with balls was Napoleon. But here's something you don't know. His family were Italians who settled in Corsica. He wasn't even French.
__________________________________________________
Now let's all agree to disagree, and find comfort in our heartfelt belief that FRANCE SUCKS!:p

[Ellen M.]

Originally posted by Furious D
The sun, moon and stars don't shine out of the crack of Dubya's ass.

A - Furious D, that is the funniest thing I've read all morning! Ha, ha, ha!

B - I get the LAST word because I started this Mongolian clusterfuck of a thread & I'm a chick!

Ellen ;)

[truepictures]

Furious, the only reason I call him ankitofilth is because I've known the kid since he was 9 years old. The only reason he joined Filmthreat is not to talk about films, but just to praise Bush and mock liberals, something he does with me enough in real life.

And Furious -- please note that he has not responded to anyone else's posts, but mine. Don't single me out for the namecalling, read his posts carefully.


Michael Moore has some good arguments but sometimes he is a bit too preachy.

[ankitovich]

Originally posted by truepictures
The only reason he joined Filmthreat is not to talk about films, but just to praise Bush and mock liberals, something he does with me enough in real life.

An infuriating lie. I am a long time film enthusiast, but I will not preach to any choirs on these forums. Nor will I pander to the prevailing wisdom put forth by some on these boards. I think independently and if I threaten the FilmThreat establishment with that kind of thought then I apologize in advance. I also recommend that some of you get used to some clearer perspectives.

[Ellen M.]

Antikovich, I'm all for independent thinking, and even though we don't all agree on things, I think it's a very cool thing that we can all express our views!

The only way for us to get a clearer perspective is if we colonnize Mars or the Moon!

Ellen ;)

[El Duderino Diablo]

I'm still waiting for cooking suggsestions for my canned eels and minced prawns.

[Furious D]

Originally posted by The Dude
I'm still waiting for cooking suggsestions for my canned eels and minced prawns.

I suggest a stir-fry.

Cook some white rice with a little chicken boullion. Meanwhile you fry the canned eels and minced prawns in a pan with butter and a teaspoon of mild curry paste.

When the prawns and eels are 3/4 cooked toss in some minced onions, garlic, and peppers. Stir them around for about 5 minutes or until the onion pieces become clear.

Then add the cooked rice. Stir around and enjoy.

Viva the Clusterfuck!:D

[El Duderino Diablo]

Well that sounds absolutely delicious. Thankee.

[Ellen M.]

Might I suggest throwing in some jellied eels?...
These are a specialty in the East End of London (went to college there). They have a wonderfully pungent aroma (gag!), and that's some good eatin'!

Guys, thanks for lightening up the pissy mood in this thread... a sense of humor is critical!

Viva La Clusterfuck & let's eat!!
Ellen ;)

[Ellen M.]

Oh and Dude...
I hope those canned eels & minced prawns aren't imported from FRANCE!

Ha, ha!
Ellen :p