The Madness of President George (Dubbya)

[Ellen M.]

Okay, it's clear that Mel Gibson's lost his mind, but it looks like President Bush isn't too far behind on this gay marriage ban stuff. He's treading into very dangerous territory (you know the place where all of the rednecks & fundamentalists live)...

I just cannot understand how two loving people of the same sex wanting to create a life together & share the same benefits as the rest of us is a threat to the institution of marriage?! You know what the real threat to the insitution of marriage is in this country... the divorce rate & Britney Spears!

And HELLO, aren't there more important issues we need to deal with in this country, like the economy, education, healthcare, the environment, oh, and that little war raging in Iraq?! "I'm a joiner not a divider" my ass!

I'm not really a political person (and I see this as more of a human rights issue anyway), but we've already dipped our toes in the religion pool, so let's have at it, folks!

Ellen ;)

[GiGi]

Ellen, all I can say is thank GOD we have an election coming up and I HOPE people get out and vote this time to change the way things are. It's just a mess, isn't it?

[Ellen M.]

Amen sistah!
And I mean that in a non-religious, non-threatening way...heh!

Ellen ;)

[Furious D]

Gay marriage is inevitable. Dubya knows that, but he won't admit it in public. His advisors are telling him to use the issue to draw away support for Kerry.

As for me, I'm for gay marriage. Let them give it a shot. They couldn't possibly do any worse than heteros.

Here's a scary bit of trivia for you.

Both Dubya and Kerry are members of the ultra-secretive SKULL & BONES society. Coincidence, or conspiracy.

[GiGi]

Here here, Im all about monogomy and true love. And if anyone wants to get married and pledge them selves to one person, who in the world can make that bad or sinful? :)

[judex]

Polls show that most Americans support a ban on gay marriages. So don't be so sure this issue will hurt Bush's chances for re-election. I think it was a canny move on his part. He knows that the amendment will never get the two-thirds vote in both the House and Senate. Then, he can say to his Christian conservative base, "I tried."

For good or bad, I am afraid we will have Bush for another four years. He is telling middle America what they want to hear. And thats where the electoral votes count.

[GiGi]

Talk about all the current issues that would be complete suicide to discuss at dinner parties and so on...religion and gay marriages, and election time. Yikes. I think I'll stick to the weather.

[The Baron]

I've actually already covered this topic in another thread (Who pisses you off?) http://www.filmthreat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=639&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

[judex]

I wasn't saying I agreed with Bush. I was just pointing out that polls show most Americans are against gay marriages and as a political move, his coming out for a constitutional amendment was a smart one.

He is pushing the debate away from the economy (which could hurt him). By focusing on the gay marriage issue, he is hitting an area where middle America feels threatened and is more likely to side with him than the Democrats.

I'm not against gay marriage. Nor am I a Christian. But only a fool would deny that there is a strong Christian bent in middle America and any one who taps into it is going to win a lot of votes.

I was just trying to present the facts dispassionately and forecast a realistic outcome on Bush pushing the gay marriage issue.

[The Baron]

Oh, you make a very elloquent point, and I don't think anybody was judging you on that.

I do, however, believe that many Americans are truly afraid that Bush will be "re-elected" the way he was "elected." I know when I've mentioned that I thought Bush would probably be re-elected, many friends of mine have a knee-jerk reaction and lay the "how could you think something so horrible" spiel. They don't even want to allow the thought to enter their minds.

Does Ralph Nader work for the Republican Party? He seems to specialize in dividing the voters necessary to oust an incumbant.

Keeping to my personal timeline, I should be living as an ex-pat, on the European continent, before the 2008 election.

[keatsar]

I don't like Bush and I don't like Kerry. I don't like anyone who's wanting the throne this year. I say Bruce Campbell should be president.

[Ellen M.]

Originally posted by The Baron
Keeping to my personal timeline, I should be living as an ex-pat, on the European continent, before the 2008 election.

PLEASE TAKE ME WITH YOU!
Ellen ;)

[Graham Rae]

You really don't wanna live here. It's all fucked. The UK is a lapdog to Dubyahoo. There is no escaping stupidity anywhere in the world. Face it. But hey. Gay marriage. Who sponsors these polls that say that the majority of Americans don't support gay marriage? Who makes this shit up? Question everything. I can't believe that most Americans truly hate the idea of gay marriage. I doubt most people give two shits, cos it doesn't impact on them. I'd like to think that America is more than just a buncha homophobic rednecks; know my American friends aren't anyway. Bush is just hatemongering, and giving it a religous base whilst doing so. The usual shit.

What is wrong with two people in love who want to make a commitment to each other? There is way too much hatred in this world to direct it blindly against lovers of whatever sex. Love is too precious an difficult a thing to come by without demonizing it. You'd think that Dubyahoo would want gays to stop being promiscuous, so that the spread of HIV would go down concomitantly. Shit, like hetero marriage is such a great thing. It was only started to establish parentage of children so that legacies could be properly doled out, guys wouldn't have to look after kids that weren't theirs and family names could be carried on. Fuck marriage. Or not. If gay people wanna get married, let 'em. And no, I am not gay. And let me the fuck off this drowning-in-redneck-shite planet. Cos it ain't funny no more.

G.

[Furious D]

Originally posted by keatsar
I don't like Bush and I don't like Kerry. I don't like anyone who's wanting the throne this year. I say Bruce Campbell should be president.

That's probably the best idea in American politics in the last hundred years. Who will be his Vice President?

[keatsar]

Robin Williams. Or Bruce can be the vice to Robin. You ever see Robin's bit where he talks about how he'd change the country? Priceless stuff, purely priceless.

[Jeremy Knox]

I think the mechanism for the election of people like Bush occurs because most voters are neither conservative or liberal, but instead jump from one side to the other on the issues (NOTE: They're not moderates either, I consider a moderate to be someone who constantly debates the whys, the people I'm reffering to don't debate. They simply accept whatever side's idea they picked without question)

So you have these "hoppers". People who think "Well, I'm against the censorship that the conservatives are pushing, but I don't like the idea of this socialized health care the liberals are trying to cram down my throat."

So in the end they vote against the issue they feel most strongly against. Usually it works like this. Liberals are in power for too long and the guy/gal looks at the amount of taxes their paying, or they feel other countries are laughing at America or whatever and they vote conservative because "A great CHANGE is needed."

Then, 8 years later, they can't rent a porn film anywhere because it's banned. The country is in 9 simultaneous wars and the vice President is baptizing congress in the White House swimming pool.

Well that SCARES our little side-hopper so they vote, you got it, liberal.

I'm exagerating of course, but essentially that's how it works. These people may not be a majority, but there's enough of them to make a party switch in the white house every 8 years or so.

So the moral here is to vote in the primaries and hope that whoever heads your party in the presidential race won't be a complete nut. Cuz, once the electoral college makes a decision you can't go "Oh wait... I don't like..."

In any case. Good luck my American Cousins! I luv ya :)

JK13

[GiGi]

Originally posted by keatsar
I don't like Bush and I don't like Kerry. I don't like anyone who's wanting the throne this year. I say Bruce Campbell should be president.

Here, here. I'll be his intern ;)

Hey Jeremy, where are you at that porn in banned? I know it was in Oz, like THAT stopped anyone. haha

[GiGi]

Duh, never mind. Canada.

Well, you guys can have porn, that's for sure. You guys have some cool things happening there like the don't ask don't tell issue on marijuana for one. :)

[judex]

Originally posted by GiGi
Duh, never mind. Canada.

Well, you guys can have porn, that's for sure. You guys have some cool things happening there like the don't ask don't tell issue on marijuana for one. :)

Hey, we have that over here. Provided they don't have a search warrant,

[The Baron]

*takes bong hit*

FUCK THE SYSTEM, YO! :cool:

[judex]

I think the system is too busy fucking us.

[GiGi]

Originally posted by judex
Hey, we have that over here. Provided they don't have a search warrant,

Do you mean in Utah or the US? Here, people go tp prison and do hard time for smoking some J while child molesters, rapist, and murderers walk the street and get counseling. From what I have heard, and correct me if Im wrong, Canadians, they are more concerned with other things than that. I love the USA and it's the best in the world. But we do have some screwed up prioroties.

[judex]

In most states simple possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor. Sales is quite another matter. There are some pretty harsh minimum mandatories for sales. However most first offenders for possession don't even do jail time. Cocaine possession is a lot tougher, especially crack.

It's the minimum mandatory sentencing that sucks. Child molestors can work out deals for less time (same as murders for that matter), while certain drug laws force judges to issue hard time for drug offences.

[GiGi]

Hey Judex,

A buddy of mine was stopped with pot a few years back and just happened to have a gun in the front of his car. I guess it was a bad combo because he got busted and felony charges against him. He didnt do any jail time but he has paid dues since then and just got off probabtion. I think some crazy ex turned him in or something. SO it's that kinda thing that's so stupid. I have never been harrassed by someone stoned; alcohol is much worse to me.

I went and saw a debate a while back called "Heads Vs. the Feds" with Steve Hager from HIgh Times. I don't consider myself a big head, but this was a very intersting debate.

[judex]

Originally posted by GiGi
A buddy of mine was stopped with pot a few years back and just happened to have a gun in the front of his car. I guess it was a bad combo because he got busted and felony charges against him.

Was the felony charge for pot possession or related to the gun? I have several friends who have been busted for pot possession and none of them have ever been charged with a felony.

What the Feds have to realize is the drug war is a total bust. It fills up our jails and drug use in this country is still pretty damned rampant. It is also expensive.

[Furious D]

Originally posted by GiGi
From what I have heard, and correct me if Im wrong, Canadians, they are more concerned with other things than that. I love the USA and it's the best in the world. But we do have some screwed up prioroties.

If you want screwed up priorities, come on down to Canada.

In Canada there are only 2 ways where a person can get hard time in prison. I'm talking 10 years to life.

1. Commit a crime against property. Steal a car, burglarize a store, you're going down for hard time.

2. Be innocent of murder. Canada's justice system is riddled with cases of men sentenced to life with no parole, only to later cleared, not by new evidence, but by evidence the police and courts ignored. Meanwhile, if there's a dead certain case of multiple 1st degree murder against a very guilty suspect, then he'll be sentenced to 6 years, of which he'll only serve 2. But if he's innocent, he won't be seeing sunlight for at least 10 years.
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As for our legalizing pot policy, it's pretty much only being done because our previous Prime Minister thought it would bug Dubya. That and the fact that BC Bud is rapidly becoming our biggest export. Second only to oil and comedians. It's not legal yet, but no one's really enforced the laws to any degree in years.

This is also a country where our immigration department wants to deport the legally married foreign born spouses of Canadian Citizens. The reason. They'd like them to redo the paperwork from their birth country. A proccess that can take up to 10 years. Meanwhile a convicted international terrorist has successfully fought off all attempts to deport him for the past 25 years.

The Canadian government started registering legally owned hunting rifles, claiming that it would reduce crime. Instead gun violence, especially in Toronto has tripled in the past year. All done, not with legal hunting rifles, but illegal pistols and automatic weapons smuggled from the USA, Europe and Asia.

The government has spent over $1,000,000,000 on the registry that was supposed to cost $10,000,000 and the system crashed beyond repair several times, forcing them to redo it all over again. And it's screwed over our once strict gun laws to the point where you could do hard time for inheriting your great-great-grandpa's antique musket, but walk away with a fine for using an Uzi in a crowded street.

Our health care system's a tragic joke. People can wait up to 24-36 hours in many emergency rooms. Surgical patients are forced to sleep on gurneys in hallways, because the government won't cough up the money to open up the rooms. Doctors and nurses can work weeks, sometimes months, straight without a day off, usually working 15+ hour days. Ancient Rome had a better run health care system than Canada.

Our post 9-11 'anti-terrorism' legislation that supposed to combat people planting bombs and hijacking planes, was actually written to justify crushing non-violent protests and the harrassment of journalists. If Ashcroft had the home of a Washington Post reporter searched, like what's happened here with the newspaper reporter for The Ottawa Citizen, there'd be hell to pay.

America's screwed up all right, but no worse than any other country, and a lot of times a lot better.

[GiGi]

That is a good question. Im not sure how much he had on him, or if it was a combination of the two (gun/drugs); the guy always carries FOID reg cards and is up to date so Im not sure. I do know he erred having it in the front of his vehicle as opposed to trunk. I remember reading about it in the local rag while he was still in jail, like he was some kind of terrorist. He really went through tons of crap over it. But it could be everything was pushed extra hard because he was carrying MJ.

I can understand a war on crap like meth, crack, coke, etc....that shit is scary and dangerous! My house was robbed about 2 years ago by meth heads who stole a movie camera I had worked my ass off to buy for school, not to mention things I cant mention without wanting to cry. They got off in exchange for confessing to other robberies but never did mine. They even ripped vents out of the wall and carpet looking for who knows. Never got shit back. Years of memories gone for some cheap nasty fix. And me, the dumbass honest working stiff without insurance, lost everything. :(

But, I digress. As I said, I have never had a bit of trouble with a stoner. :) I think anyone can agree to that.

[judex]

Originally posted by Furious D
America's screwed up all right, but no worse than any other country, and a lot of times a lot better.

Boy, you got that right. How would you like to be a citizen of Haiti, Burma, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Columbia, China, Sierra Leone or any of a zillion other countries right now?

We got it pretty good in the USA, and in Canada for that matter. We can bitch about our country's swing to the left or the right without having someone attach a car battery to our genitals

[GiGi]

D, you wouldn't believe how many people here I have said that wants to go to Canada to live...had no idea. Guess it goes to show there are problems everywhere. I get really sick of people USA bashing like we are responsible for the worlds problems. Everyone has a cross to bear.

[Furious D]

The USA should be glad that it has at least 2 functioning parties and that you need more than 2 states to rule the country.

In Canada we've got one party, the (not very) Liberal Party. They can do whatever they want and get away with it, because Ontario will always keep them in power.

The only nearly viable alternative is the revamped Conservative Party which is an uneasy alliance between center-right and centerist groups trying to break the one party state. They're having a leadership race right now. In that contest I'm supporting Belinda Stronach. She's 37, single, attractive, smart, and is set to inherit about a billion dollars when her dad kicks it. She's the 1st politician in Canadian history that people want to have sex with. So I say VIVA BELINDA!:D

As for our other national party, The NDP, don't get me started on them. I can't bring myself to vote for a party whose leader I once personally offended. It's a silly but true story and I might tell it to you all later if you're good & eat your veggies. But right now, it's late and I'm tired. Goodnight y'all.

Bye the way Belinda, if you're reading this... Call me.;)

[El Duderino Diablo]

Belinda Stronach? You've got to be kidding me.
Sheesh, man. You make our hospitals sound like back alleys in Calcutta. It isn't always that bad. ;)

[The Baron]

Whereas I am the first to admit, yes, the USA is a pretty great place to live, I will also say that there are other places in the world that I have spent extended periods of time in, (not as a tourist, but living in,) and wouldn't mind returning to on a permanent basis. In order of preference:

The Netherlands - I absolutely adore Holland. The people there are wonderful and mind their own business; the entire country is beautiful, and morality is not heavily legislated. Dutch citizens are well taken care of. They don't have a major homelessness problem there, as the homeless are given job training and a place to live until they can stand on their own two feet. Human rights have the priority there, and the country has a phenomenally low crime rate. (The only people who tried to panhandle from me in Amsterdam were fellow Americans!)

Austria - Specifically, Salzburg. The people of Salzburg treated me like royalty during my lengthy stay there, and I've maintained friendships with a good many folks in the city that gave us W. A. Mozart. I've rarely felt as "at home" anywhere else, and the cafe culture and musical scene are truly wonderful.

Czech Republic - Prague is a slice of heaven on earth. The arts are for everyone there, not just the rich, and the Czech economy is on an upswing. I will always remember the first time I stepped into Stare Mesto Square. I realized that, in America, we don't have history. We have antiques.

I have a dream of going back to one of these places and opening a book store dealing in first editions.

In the mean time, I can only pray that the American people will stop trading their liberties for a false sense of security.

[Furious D]

Originally posted by The Dude
Belinda Stronach? You've got to be kidding me.
Sheesh, man. You make our hospitals sound like back alleys in Calcutta. It isn't always that bad. ;)

She is the first politician I ever wanted to have sex with.;) And that's a better reason to vote for her than for Gordon "Pass the Vodka & My Car Keys" Campbell.;)

As for our hospitals, they shouldn't be that bad at any time. One woman in Halifax waited 26 hrs to get her dislocated hip put back in place, and when she did, the procedure was performed by an intern and a janitor in a supply room. That's just one of thousands of hospital horror stories I've been hearing lately.

If you listen carefully you can hear Tommy Douglas, one of my old faves, spinning in his grave.:eek:

And Belinda, Unilingual Tory Love Goddess, I'm still waiting for your call...;)
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Now kiddies, it's time for me to tell you the story about how I offended the leader of a national political party. In Canada the New Democratic Party or NDP is currently led by a Toronto politician named Jack Layton.

Many moons ago, while I was university in Toronto, Jack Layton was a political unknown running for every post from Member of Parliament to Dog Catcher. It was during one of his earliest campaigns for the Provincial legislature that I met him. He had come into the 1st year residence trolling for votes and handing out pamphlets. Politicians weren't allowed to bug the residents, but he was friends with one of the staff and was snuck in. So, the little imp on my shoulder that advises me on such things told me it would be fun to bust his balls, in a figurative sense.

He hands me a pamphlet. I smile, open it up, and with my thickest Nova Scotia Yokel accent I declare: "Lard tunderin' Jayzuz boy, where's the friggin' twenty bucks?"

Layton stared at me in shock. Seeing my opportunity, I kept going. "What's with you Ontario tight-arses? Too good to buy a man's vote, eh? You probably don't give away free booze on election day either?"

Layton didn't get the joke, made a hasty exit in an offended huff and I laughed my ass off. 10 years later he's elected leader of the NDP & I laughed my ass off again.

[El Duderino Diablo]

Hey, I had nothing to do with Gorgon Campbell getting into office and thanks to that (excuse my French) douche bag I now find myself a man of liesure.
Honor contracts, my ass.
Where's my pike, my axe? My sword and my horned helmut? I've got smiting to do!

[Furious D]

All you have to do is give him a bottle of whiskey and send him up the Sea to Sky highway. Problem solved.;)

Besides, I can't be blamed for any government. I've never once voted for the winning side in any election. I think the curse started when I voted for Doug Henning & the Natural Law party. But hell, yogic flying was the most logical plan any party presented. :D

Belinda, oh blonde corporate dominatrix goddess of my darkest & dampest dreams, gimme that call. I don't want you for your money, it's purely physical. ;)

[Ellen M.]

I think that Baron, Judex & Gigi should all run on the Hemp Party ticket! I mean, if we could get everyone in this country to have a hash brownie
& chill the hell out, things would prolly be a lot better! I'm not a pothead myself, but I really don't see how it's any worse than alcohol, which seems to be a totally socially acceptable drug in America (and wasn't G Dubbya a big boozer back in the day?).

So back to the discussion at hand, How do we keep the "hoppers" at bay? I just don't see how it's possible, and are there really enough of them out there to swing the vote? Oh, and this just in... The Bush administration has just announced their 2004 campaign slogan. Remember "Shock & Awe" in Iraq?... Well, they've decided to go with a "Smoke & Mirrors" theme this year, to deflect any possible concerns about the economy, environment, education & any other REAL issues people might want the Republican party to address. The ammendment for a gay marriage ban was chosen randomly from a hat that Rosie O'Donnell once wore on her show.

Sorry Canada, we've got our own issues to deal with right now! Tell that Queen of yours to get off her badly dressed ass & help out her little province!

Ahhhh Amsterdam.... I miss that place too!
Ellen ;)

[El Duderino Diablo]

"Little province... " ?

That's gotta warrant a smiting.

[Furious D]

Sorry to hog your thread with our Canadian bitching. It's just what Canadians do best. And Canada isn't little Ellen. It's actually much larger than the USA. If Canada and the USA were in prison, then the USA would be our bitch. ;)

(Thanx to Rick Mercer for that last line, :D)

Belinda, this is your last chance for some sweet lovin'. Call me, come on, I've been taking the damn Enzyte like you wanted and now I...

Maybe I've said too much. ;)

TO DO LIST FOR AMERICA'S NEXT PRESIDENT:

Forget the Gay Marriage ban. Let them marry. It literally ain't gonna hurt anybody. And it might give the economy a boost with all that wedding spending.

Be willing to do things without UN approval, because as long as France has a veto, UN approval ain't happening.

Cut all the waste and pork barrelling that Congress slaps onto bills. You've got a line item veto don't you? Use it.

Sort out health care by having the CEOs of HMOs and drug companies rounded up and shot.

Simplify the tax code and then make corporations pay their fair share without the crazy loopholes.

Let the potheads have their toke. It's not like they're going to get it legalized by themselves, they're not exactly known for their motivation.;)

Have all lobbyists exiled from the USA and forced to work as aid workers in the 3rd World.

Start bringing out that freaky shit from Area 51. That'll scare the piss out of your enemies. Wait'll they get a load of the cyborgs.

Have all crooked CEOs given a choice. They can return their ill gotten money to their investors and walk away. Or they can keep the money and have all their bones broken on a monthly basis by a large man with a cricket bat.

Get Michael Bay to please stop making any more movies.

I think I've laid out a decent plan for America.

[Ellen M.]

Damn, you Canadians are so sentitive!
Yes Furious, you're right, your country is so big, so huge, so massive... it doesn't even need any "enhancements"! I bet you could take us in a naked chocolate syrup wrestling match too!

Seriously, I meant no disrespect to my Canadian brothers & sisters (this doesn't include the Queen though)! I love all of my neighbors to the north
(except the fanatical Muslims who are planning on sneaking across the unguarded border)! Jesus loves you too!

Ellen ;)

[Furious D]

Originally posted by Ellen M.
Damn, you Canadians are so sentitive!
Yes Furious, you're right, your country is so big, so huge, so massive... it doesn't even need any "enhancements"! I bet you could take us in a naked chocolate syrup wrestling match too!
Ellen ;)

Actually naked chocolate syrup wrestling is our national sport. It's more popular that hockey, but not played as much in the winter.

[judex]

Originally posted by Ellen M.
I think that Baron, Judex & Gigi should all run on the Hemp Party ticket!
Ellen ;)

I don't know about the other guys, but I live in Utah. The only way you can get an electoral vote there is to be a Republican. Looks like I'm outta the Hemp party.

Oh well, that is probably for the best. Being the corruptible bum I am, I would probably except bribes from anyone and set policy based on who ponied up the most cash.

That Presidential retirement plan sure is sweet, though.

[GiGi]

Hemp Party...lol. Well we'd certainly get the college vote.

Ah Holland and all that sounds cool, but it's going to be italy for me...sitting in my own vinyard drinking red wine and eating pasta :)

We are screwed up here in ways, but I respect a place where some poor girl can go to school and get scholarships, grants, and loans for a better life. Haha Someone shoudl have told me though a degree in Cinema would still leave me being poor. we have a lot to be grateful for, and I bitch a lot but I dont forget our freedoms. :)

[Furious D]

I'm looking for a few volunteers.

All this talk about what we'd do if we were in the White House has given me an idea. If you're interested I'll start a new chain script called NOT THE WEST WING. Basically it'll be where we can set up our own White House and promptly screw things up from there.

So, if you want to participate, drop me a PM telling me what cabinet position you want and any elements you want your character to have in the script. I'll whip up the first episode and character guide and then you can all pitch in with your own 'episodes.' Sounds like more fun than a sack of hamsters, doesn't it?:D